Thu 23 Jun 2005
Thinkpad T42, ATI RADEON 9600 Driver, and the Blue Screen of Death (BSOD)
Posted by Judd under General , Technology[142] Comments
Nobody likes the BSOD, but the worst thing about it is when it comes sporadically and for seemingly no reason at all. When you've made a change to your system that results in errors, it's pretty easy to diagnose. Otherwise, oh god, it's awful.
Recently my IBM Thinkpad T42 (2373-3VU, for those who care), started acting erratically. It would freeze at random moments, shut down spontaneously and then fail to start up again, and sometimes not come on at all. Then, of course, I got the dreaded BSOD a couple of times. I called IBM (Lenovo) customer support and got nowhere. They did, however, inspire me to reseat my RAM. I thought that fixed the problem, but then the BSOD reappeared. I nearly cried.
The irritating thing about the BSOD is that it's full of useful information for diagnosing your problem, but it flashes off so quickly, as the computer reboots, that you have no time to read it. Thank goodness for Win XP's 'Watchdog' feature, which will log the text of each BSOD you get into text files with the extension '.wdl'. Find these in: /WINDOWS/LogFiles/Watchdog.
My latest BSOD contained the following:
//
// Watchdog Event Log File
//LogType: Watchdog
Created: 2005-06-23 20:51:48
TimeZone: 480 – Pacific Standard Time
WindowsVersion: XP
EventType: 0xEA – Thread Stuck in Device Driver//
// The driver for the display device got stuck in an infinite loop. This
// usually indicates a problem with the device itself or with the device
// driver programming the hardware incorrectly. Please check with your
// display device vendor for any driver updates.
//EaRecovery: 1
ShutdownCount: 108
Shutdown: 0
EventCount: 3
BreakCount: 3
BugcheckTriggered: 1
DebuggerNotPresent: 1
DriverName: ati2dvag
EventFlag: 1
DeviceClass: Display
DeviceDescription: ATI MOBILITY RADEON 9600 Series
HardwareID: PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4E50&SUBSYS_05501014&REV_00
Manufacturer: ATI Technologies Inc.
DriverFixedFileInfo: FEEF04BD 00010000 0006000E 000A1953 0006000E 000A1953 0000003F 00000008 00040004 00000003 00000004 00000000 00000000
DriverCompanyName: ATI Technologies Inc.
DriverFileDescription: ATI Radeon WindowsNT Display Driver
DriverFileVersion: 6.14.10.6483
DriverInternalName: ati2dvag.dll
DriverLegalCopyright: Copyright (C) 1998-2004 ATI Technologies Inc.
DriverOriginalFilename: ati2dvag.dll
DriverProductName: ATI Radeon WindowsNT Display Driver
DriverProductVersion: 6.14.10.6483
Most of that doesn't make sense to me, but it did help me isolate the problem down to my video driver. A quick Google search reveals that other folks have had problems with the ati2dvag driver and the BSOD. No one with a Thinkpad, though. I was optimistic about the fix I found here, but no joy. So I upgraded to the latest driver through IBM's site – that's 6.14.10.6512. Find the update insteller here.
So that seems to have done the trick, though I need to run it through the ringer. I'm not sure what caused the conflict, but if you're like me MS just hit you with a rash of Windows Updates. I'm guessing one of them caused the problem. Who knows.
So, hopefully this is helpful for someone out there.
Update: Of course, nothing is as easy as it seems. The problems with my machine are reoccuring. However, I've recently noticed that the erratic behavior only occurs when I'm running on battery power, and then only when I am not stationary at my desk. Is something loose? The video adapter, perhaps? I can remember a slightly unusual ding that I gave the machine by accident several days back, but it was nothing drastic. It might have been just enough, though. I'm calling IBM (Lenovo) back. I'll report!
Update (again): A more knowledgeable and well spoken IBM/Lenovo employee suggested that there could be a conflict with my embedded controller or BIOS. My embedded controller was already up to date, but my BIOS was 3 versions old. I upgraded from 3.13 to 3.16. It remains to be seen if that will solve the problem, but it's worth a try. He is also sending me a new memory chip in case that is the culprit.
Final Update: After all this, the laptop finally just died, and I took it in. They replaced my motherboard (for the 2nd time in the year that I've had this laptop), and everything's dandy now. I think, basically, when there is so much random and erratic behavior, there can be no other explanation.
Final Final Update (6.16.2006): After more than a year and many, many comments on this post, Soren seems to have come up with the first definitive cause of these problems – if we believe Lenovo knows what they're talking about. Unfortunately, it sounds like if you have the defective part, there's nothing much you can do to prevent the chance of a problem, and nothing to be done short of a new mainboard when it happens.
My 18 month T42 has also been getting progressively worse recently with more frequent lock ups. I thought the shock protection device was being too sensitive. Pressing on the top of the case helps for a short time…but any minor movement will lock it up.
This Thinkpad design is not quite as rugged as I was led to believe.
This condition reminds me of my old Atari ST computer with the motherboard located under the keyboard. In the sunset of its useful like I would have "twist" the whole thing to seat the chips before it would boot up…it sounded like knuckles cracking.
This fix worked great!!! Thank you soooo much.
During the past week I've had the same problems with my T40. It's such a shame, as I really love this laptop.
The machine will fail to boot up, or it will suddenly freeze if the case is handled ever so slightly; perhaps even from typing. Pressing the upper left corner of the area to the right of the touchpad has been enough to prevent freezing but lift the finger, and there goes your session. (Press again, and it stays frozen.)
I mainly just see a black screen. The BSOD isn't seen often but when it does happen, it leads to a brief error message about the ATI2DVAg file. Initially, I was naive enough to think the problem could be fixed by installing an updated version of this file… but we know this isn't a software problem.
It seems the laptop does not overheat. I installed the program recommended above and my machine stays in the '30s. Anyway, I have problems even when booting up in the morning, so…
The post-it fix was an improvement but the problem would still happen, just not as often. Adding folded paper to the "next chip along" (is that the BGA chip?) has also been effective, although I suspect the problem remains the ATI chip but that firming the general area around it may work. Is it safe to place paper in the machine though?
I bought my laptop used and have no warranty. Buying a new motherboard seems to be no guarantee of a permanent solution. Taking the machine into my local repair shop will probably be an expensive excercise ending with the recommendation that I get a new motherboard.
So I hope people will keep sharing their experience with the forum – both in terms of own fixes, good companies offering solutions, as well as how IBM owes up to the problem.
Mikael
I solved this on my IBM R32 last weekend and wrote a detailed post. Here's a link:
http://rdist.root.org/2007/06/18/ibm-thinkpad-overheating-chipset-fix/
Update: Thanks to Stephen for his post above (78.). I placed a piece of folded paper on the chip next to the one saying ATI, and the laptop has been stable since.
Naturally, I'll also try not to handle the laptop with just one hand from now on…
PS: Great link, Nate. It's very useful for non-computer sassy people like myself to see close-ups of the parts we've been talking about in this thread!
I've had a T60p with the FireGL 5200V 512 card installed. Although the pad worked as it should for about 6 months, I've had the infinite blue screen loop occurring every 10 minutes or so (plugged in or not) and being stable on a table top doesn't seem to matter. I'm getting the ati2vdag dump. Lenovo seemed to feel a hardware issue was at hand so it's off to service this week. I have noticed that when I hit the web site, the T60p doesn't seem to have an option for the 5200V 512M anymore? What's the deal there? Has someone seen an issue, removed this option from the build options and just failed to issue a bulletin over it? On the other hand, this issue started in MAY, my warranty has gone south as of July 20th. Today being the 9th of Aug. Lenovo is going to proceed with work under warranty being as I first reported it back in May. The notebook 'disappeared' for 3 months at work. They must have had an issue getting past the biometrics and returned it. So has anyone else had these issues with the 5200V 512M card/build? This is a 2613-ETU
Wish I'd found this a while back. Would have answered a lot of questions…
I've got a T42 (2373-AUU) from mid-summer 2004, so early the tech didn't know they'd started putting wi-fi on the mobo. (I know, I just like saying it…) had to have them help me upgrade various firmware to get on-board wi-fi to work at all…
I'll say that I can't indict Thinkpad durability, as this is my fifth since 1994, and I've also had 2 Toshibas and a Dell. But the design on this model seems flawed, perhaps by pushing the features v. size v. weight equation too far.
Mine has returned to Atlanta twice for mobo replacement, all under warranty, for exactly the probs described here: random freeze-up, black/blank screen, error ref to ATI/Radeon driver, touchiness when either the screen angle is adjusted, or when the area to the right of the scratchpad (totally useless piece of h/w, IMHO. Fell in love w/ the trackpoint, & I'm NEVER going back to trackballs, flickpads, etc…)
I now always pick it up with two hands, rarely carry it with the lid open, and cary it by the battery edge, book-like, when closed and off.
So far, so good.
Love my black monolith w/ the red dot.
My t42 would not boot up or take a charge for no reason. Two days later it booted up and worked for 3 minutes and then shut itself down and would not power on again. I pushed power button 10 times and then held power button for 20 seconds…..the battery light flashed and that was it. Tech support tells me it is bad motherboard
Does anyone know if the blank screen/motherboard problem is found on T30's as well? I bought a used T30 (2366-FBU) from IBM last Feb and its now doing the exact same thing. Sometimes I get 4 sets of 4 beeps, always get blank screen – even the little lite on the screen won't come on. Argh…
Pete
Pete..You can check the beep codes here:
http://www.bioscentral.com/beepcodes/ibmbeep.htm
My R40 has the GPU problem and when I got beeps, it was one long, two short. The problem has – apparently – been resolved with the "wedge." I needed a higher stack to get above a "cage" off to the left of the GPU, but my Thinkpad is no longer a paperweight.
Consumer Electronics Reviews…
I couldn't understand some parts of this article, but it sounds interesting…
I have a IBM t42 2004 Lap top .I have run out of warranty and i have a 256 MB RAM.
I need to Upgrade it 2GB RAM.
I looked in FRYS.com
Circuit City
Couldnt get a Extendable RAM.
Can any one suggest me whats the right place and rite price to get an EXTENSDABLE RAM of size 2GB for
IBM t42 3768 2004 model.?
Had the same problem, out of warranty. I did what Teis above suggested, removed the thermal goo and resealed the heat sink, CPU and GPU, and it didn't quite do it. Adrien Lamothe and a couple other people suggested shims or plate under the motherboard. What I did was bend/bow the heat sink so that when it was screwed down it would exert a tighter seal on the GPU and voila, it works.
Hi,
Reading all of this makes me nervous. I have not had any problems with my T42(2378-DXU) that is three years old. I love my thinkpad and from my experience it has been rock solid. I'll keep my fingers cross.
Good luck
Cheers,
Aldo
I can't say Im glad I found this site, but its nice to know that my problem is shared by lots of people. I have a t40 and just yesterday it started doing this wierd thing with the screen where it would split and project the top on the bottom and vice versa then just go blank. When I could get it to reboot I would get a windows error blaming ATI drivers like everyone else. Knew I shoulda saved up a few more months and bought a new one with a warranty -doh
Well, after having tried the 'put someting on the ATI chip or the neighboring one' with some success, eventually the thing just didn't work. I sent away the laptop to have the ATI chip reflowed, but that didn't solve the problem. Maybe it was indeed the neighboring chip that was now the problem, but the experts told me that once they start dealing with motherboard problems, they fix one thing only to see a problem somewhere else. I have now had a new motherboard installed. Although it may not last for years, at least the T40 is back to perfect health, and if I take care in handling the laptop maybe the problem won't come back for quite a long time. BTW, I got excellent service from a company called thinkpadsales and highly recommend it.
I have a problem with my IBM t42 2373 , One day i leave home and leave the machine on runing on battery , when i got back that same day the machine was off and very hot , Now the machine is not turning on , even when i plug it in , Can someone tell me what they think could be the problem .
Thank for any help …
I have an R50p which has an overheating GPU. It turns off after playing games that use HW acceleration.
I see that Esteban replaced the original heatsink on the R50p with what seems to be a heatsink of a T41p. Do any of you guys know his mail address? Or if you happen to read this Esteban, pls contact me on 'pdaranyi at yahoo.com'. I want to replace the heatsink as well.
Thx!
Same issue with a T42p here. I'm going to try the shim fix. Talking with Lenovo they said my system board was about $900. 3 months out of warranty. It's hard not to get angry about it let me tell you. Thanks for all the info guys.
[...] Lenovo T42/T60 ATi i BSOD przy poruszaniu Jeżeli ktoś ma problemy z Lenovo T42/T60 z ATI na pokładzie i pojawiającym sie błędem BSOD np przy przekrzywianiu laptopa polecam ten link . Generalnie problem dotyczy błędy fabrycznego w mocowaniu chłodzenia karty grafiki. [...]
Solved!?
I have had a T40p for about five years and have endured this problem for all that time. I finally figured out a work around for the bsod problem I was experiencing. Just to let you know I have gone through the entire IBM song and dance, reseating cards, etc., reinstalling software, until they finally replace the motherboard and hope you go away. FYI, none of that will solve the problem since it is a design flaw probably related to the thinness of the device.
In short, the _randomized_ bsod on the T4X series are usually due to over-heating. In particular this can be accentuated if you use the notebook as a "lap" top device. Placing the device on your lap prevents proper airflow and increases temps.
The best solution I have found is to switch the powered CPU speed setting. After doing this I am finally enjoying crash free living on this machine.
All you have to do is go to the battery maximizer wizard and create a new profile. I call it "Powered Adaptive." Set the battery settings to those you would typically choose for battery performance, i.e adaptive. Go to the "AC" settings tab and change the CPU Speed to "Adaptive" as well. Now the laptop will use the lowest CPU speed to accommodate your current usage.
Not only will the laptop be far cooler and more comfortable on your lap, but most people are only typing or surfing, so the CPU will hardly ever get much above 600 Mhz and you will never notice.
The laptop in powered adaptive will rarely crash. If you need to use the laptop at the highest CPU speed set it on a nice cool table or workbench so it can cool itself properly and hopefully it will only crash 2 or 3 times a day as before
In powered adaptive mode you can use the laptop on your lap and never crash! Now I have to train myself out of saving all my files every 4 seconds.
Amazing.
This was a really weird experience but I think it may relate so I am going to mention it.
A friend of mine wanted to purchase a used laptop for her 12 year old son for Christmas this year on a slim budget. We waited for the right deal to come along (i.e. "fit the budget") and came up with an IBM 2883 R51 1.5/512/30gb/CDRW-DVD/WiFi in essentially "like new" condition for $250. I took the computer and over the course of a week or so customized it for the young recipient. To my dismay, three days after Christmas I got a call informing me that the Thinkpad was sadly malfunctioning and a young boy was heartbroken.
The symptoms were eerily similar to many that I subsequently researched while trying to resolve the problem: first the machine would boot into a garbled screen and be completely useless. Next, when you hit the power button, it would simply beep 4 times and stay on a blank screen.
After reading much on the GPU issues with these machines, I decided it was time to take a look inside. I downloaded the R51 maintenance manual and carefully removed the keyboard – noting that the screws were firm yet somewhat easy to turn.
After getting into the laptop I tried gently applying pressure to the GPU while hitting the power button to boot the machine (I initially removed the battery until the keyboard was off, but left the keyboard connected to control boot functions), but this did not work. I quickly decided not to mingle until I had spent considerably more time with the maintenance manual and a clearer approach to the problem. After all, I still had no evidence (only symptoms) that this was a GPU issue.
After resetting the keyboard (making sure the screws were replaced with a little better snugness)I again tried to boot the laptop; again with the same results.
Then I decided to do one last thing that was perhaps a little odd. When I removed the screws for the keyboard I noticed that different size screws were used for the different component elements of the laptop, so I decided to make sure that the service driver I was using was the correct size for all of them. I flipped the machine over and quickly discovered that the first screw I tried, indeed, was tapped in but could use a slight tightening. I decided to check them all and on average they seemed to generally need a mere 90 degree turn to firmly seat them again. (I remember thinking "This is pretty dumb – I'm going to have to undo what I am doing tomorrow when I go back into this thing…")
To make a long story a little shorter, I turned the machine back over, hit the power button – and it booted PERFECTLY!
I have since put it through an array of normal stress tests and there is no indication that anything else was wrong with this laptop. It went from a black screen to booting reliably and flawlessly. Lightly tightening all the chassis screws gave it new life, and tomorrow a young friend will now get his Christmas back.
I have not documented this experience to say "Hey, just tighten your screws – that's the problem!" I have written it because I was faced with very similar symptoms and stumbled upon a non-invasive solution that worked for this particular machine. I am aware that MOST of the symptoms in the GPU discussions will not fall into this category. Even still, I would have to endorse it as one the first things a Thinkpad owner should consider when faced with similar symptoms. Had I read it in a discussion somewhere, I could have been saved hours of misery trying to figure out the problem with this Thinkpad.
My T40 was purchased with this defect: BSOD, intermittent lock-ups, and the price reflected a possible MOBO replacement. Problem is the now universal use of surface mount components and brittle non lead solder. A T series has a thin, flexible chassis, flex results in seperation of the ATI video chip. Latest models have a LONG FAN which covers the video chips and helps stiffen board. You need to keep constant pressure on the video chip and it runs fine.I used a 1/2 inch dense foam rubber pad covering the chips and held in place by the Keyboard – which unfortunately flexes up the scroll keys. Still works but may create a pressure mark on the Screen if it is too high. I tries the Long Fan , but was not able to generate enough pressure with it, so back to the short fan and the foam rubber. It works.
I bought my Thinkpad T42 in May of 2004. After two years of using it flawlessly, it started to give me BSOD, sometimes a reboot, sometimes just a shutdown without reboot. Eventually, when I pressed the power button, it just gave me a black screen. I went to a local computer store. They told me I have to change the motherboard and including labor, it was $700. That was ridiculous. I decided to send it back to China, where I have a friend who is willing to take care of this. The Chinese service man told me they did a BGA (refer to post 79) and they told me that is the flaw of the design. 99% of the Thinkpad T4x they fixed have this problem. So it is pretty common. Now my problem started again. Maybe I don't want to spend more money on fixing it. But I think we should unite together and keep writing to Lenovo and wish they could recall these laptops.
everytime i start my laptop(IBM T42), i have a "FAN ERROR" then it shuts down !!
Do i have to replace the fan, or can i set the work frequency of the fan in the BIOS ??
everytime i start my laptop(IBM T42), i have a “FAN ERROR” then it shuts down !!
what should i do to remove this problem
I used the fix mentioned in this website about using the post-it notes and it works fine. I was previously BSOD-ing and freezing a frustrating 5-6 times a day (I used zen meditation to keep away from crushing this machine to pieces
). Open it up and do what is mentioned in the photo tutorial on flickr and it shld work. Mine is entering it's 4th year of use. Good luck all.
for the bsod on the t42 try downloading mem test, while running the program it wont happen, or at least it dont on mine, just leave it run and work away.
anyone try totally disabling the ThinkVantage Active Protection System?
this seems to have done the trick for me… read it on the thinkpads.com forum…
is this not a favored solution because of possible hazards?
Hello,
this has been a very helpful discussion. I located the problem on my laptop and it is definitely the ATI coming loose from the MBoard. When I open the laptop and press the card down to the board it starts and works fine again, until, I guess, it comes out loose again. Now my question is does anyone know what model numbers come with the fixed mother board? For example TYPE 2373-???. If we know this info we can look for used MBs from the new batch and fix our comps.
Gotglasses, can you post a picture or video of your invention and give us a link to it? This would be very helpful, as I am thinking of inventing something myself.
ok, this is to add to the knowledgebase here.
Had the intermittent screen going blank all of a sudden problem with my T42
after more than 4 solid years!
Tried the post-it trick as indicated in post 77. Works perfectly.
1. Remove hard drive
2. Remove keyboard
3. Cut posits to fit ATI Chip size, stack them together. Mine works with 5mm in height.
4. Place it just on top of the chip.
5. Screw it back and it should work.
Caveat: when i moved the laptop vigorously, the problem came back, now i have to handle it gently
It's working fine.
managed to do a full backup with acronis
it ran the entire night without blanking out.
THANKS!
Arnold
Singapore
Reply for Seth(Post 77) and others, many thanks to all of you, the post-it notes idea was genius. It REALLY works.
I had similar problems to what people have described above with my T42 – complete freeze (although the screen does not go black or BSOD) when I bump/move/whatever the laptop, sometimes boot errors along with that. I just tried the shim, using two a4 pieces of paper folded a few times… it creates a noticeable bulge in the keyboard, but I'm hoping it will create enough pressure over the graphics chip/heatsink. My initial stress test of shaking/bumping pretty vigorously was successful… here's hoping it holds up. Thanks to the informative posters above!
Unconventional successful repair, T40:
I have 'reset' my ATI module by gluing it in place with JB Weld.
Having removed the keyboard, palmrest and network card which can probably be set aside without disconnecting the antenna. I pressed gently on the chip to reset it in its socket the one billionth of an inch that it moves. I checked the success of this by temporarily reinstalling the keyboard to see if I had video.
I cleaned the area where I was going to spread the epoxy with no residue contact cleaner. I mixed some of the epoxy and spread it around the circumfrence of the ATI module avoiding any of the other chips. I put the stuff over the edge of the module up to but not over the chip itself in order to not change heat dissipation any more thannecessary . I used a wood tool, wife's wood cuticle tool – new to avoid contmination, with a blunt but thin edge to spread the cement about 1/8 inch from the edge of the module. I did not hesitate to cover everything in that range as JBWeld is supposed to be an insulator, even though it contains iron power go figure. I called the factory to clarify this and was assured that it was in fact insulating and that others had used it on circuit boards. JBWeld can be heated to 600 degrees so I figured that if it failed I could try the resolder. Now that this has been done it is obvious that the chip will not be moving relative to the board again. I hope.
18 hours later curing time and having not moved the computer at all, it worked. I have been to several coffee shops and moved it all over to test the real world success. This is day three and all is well. No apparent side effects.
http://jbweld.net/index.php
I have a picture but do not know how to include that in this post.
This is as simple as it seems.
Now 3 weeks later ad having droped the computer 2' from a table. Knocked the battery and HD out but didnt disturb video and still works, with a little tape to hold the battery in place.
Picture for the above repair #135 at:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/handyalan
i have the problem with my IBM thinkpad t 42
when i play any game on this laptop the laptop power is off without any warrning i didnt understand whats the problem plz replay me and solve my problem
I had similar problems with IBM thinkpad T42. IT freezed if the case is handled ever so slightly, perhaps even by typing any key or pressure on the left and right site of the keypad.After removing keypad and brezle I plugged the key pad in and repowered. It appears that if the wifi card was toached that it freezed again. Then I removed the wifi-card, pushed the Intel-chip beneath the opening of the wifi-card and it powered on and it start working fine as long as presure was on the INTEL-chip. Then I took some expired plastic (credit)cards, without magnetic-strip, put two parts on top of the intel-chip. Replaced the wifi-card with some pressure. then put two full plastic-cards on the wifi-card. Remounted the brezzle. With a little test plugged in the keyboard and machine worked well. After installing the keyboard oner of the screws had to be untight a little and the t42 worked again.
Good stuff.
I saw something like this in SE Michigan recently on machine in for repair.
ATI Blue Screen Problem
Dear All, I have tried to several times to resolve the issue but unable to resolve. Now I have found solution for this problem.
I have T42 with ATI Mobility 7500 VGA card, this graphics card was working fine on WinXP but when I installed Windows7, blue screen and system restart problem occurring while opening some applications.
Don’t worry and enjoy Windows 7 with ATI graphic card.
Problem:
Actually ATI3Dual.dll file is creating problem as this file not digitally signed, so take below mentioned steps.
Install Windows 7
Right click on My Computer and select (Manage) then click on (Device Manager) and then click on Display adapter and manually update drivers by providing driver location path.
System will require windows restart for drivers update.
Restart you machine, windows will load required files and register entries in registry.
Now again restart your machine in safe mode by selecting F-8 key, and then open folder C:\windows\system32 and delete below mentioned file.
Ati3duag.dll
And again restart your machine……
Problem resolved.
I have a 2 year old Dell notebook that never moves from the desk. I've noticed for about 6 months that the cooling fan is noisy and erratic. I figured it would eventually kill the machine. About 2 weeks ago, it began crashing daily with the BSOD, complaining sometimes about the infinite loop and the video driver. This machine is owned by a DOD contractor and is heavily secured, so I highly doubt a virus is the cause. Tomorrow the Dell guy will replace the MB.
[...] z ATI na pokładzie i pojawiającym sie błędem BSOD np przy przekrzywianiu laptopa polecam ten link . Generalnie problem dotyczy błędy fabrycznego w mocowaniu chłodzenia karty [...]