Thu 23 Jun 2005
Thinkpad T42, ATI RADEON 9600 Driver, and the Blue Screen of Death (BSOD)
Posted by jantin under General , Technology
Nobody likes the BSOD, but the worst thing about it is when it comes sporadically and for seemingly no reason at all. When you’ve made a change to your system that results in errors, it’s pretty easy to diagnose. Otherwise, oh god, it’s awful.
Recently my IBM Thinkpad T42 (2373-3VU, for those who care), started acting erratically. It would freeze at random moments, shut down spontaneously and then fail to start up again, and sometimes not come on at all. Then, of course, I got the dreaded BSOD a couple of times. I called IBM (Lenovo) customer support and got nowhere. They did, however, inspire me to reseat my RAM. I thought that fixed the problem, but then the BSOD reappeared. I nearly cried.
The irritating thing about the BSOD is that it’s full of useful information for diagnosing your problem, but it flashes off so quickly, as the computer reboots, that you have no time to read it. Thank goodness for Win XP’s ‘Watchdog’ feature, which will log the text of each BSOD you get into text files with the extension ‘.wdl’. Find these in: /WINDOWS/LogFiles/Watchdog.
My latest BSOD contained the following:
//
// Watchdog Event Log File
//LogType: Watchdog
Created: 2005-06-23 20:51:48
TimeZone: 480 - Pacific Standard Time
WindowsVersion: XP
EventType: 0xEA - Thread Stuck in Device Driver//
// The driver for the display device got stuck in an infinite loop. This
// usually indicates a problem with the device itself or with the device
// driver programming the hardware incorrectly. Please check with your
// display device vendor for any driver updates.
//EaRecovery: 1
ShutdownCount: 108
Shutdown: 0
EventCount: 3
BreakCount: 3
BugcheckTriggered: 1
DebuggerNotPresent: 1
DriverName: ati2dvag
EventFlag: 1
DeviceClass: Display
DeviceDescription: ATI MOBILITY RADEON 9600 Series
HardwareID: PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4E50&SUBSYS_05501014&REV_00
Manufacturer: ATI Technologies Inc.
DriverFixedFileInfo: FEEF04BD 00010000 0006000E 000A1953 0006000E 000A1953 0000003F 00000008 00040004 00000003 00000004 00000000 00000000
DriverCompanyName: ATI Technologies Inc.
DriverFileDescription: ATI Radeon WindowsNT Display Driver
DriverFileVersion: 6.14.10.6483
DriverInternalName: ati2dvag.dll
DriverLegalCopyright: Copyright (C) 1998-2004 ATI Technologies Inc.
DriverOriginalFilename: ati2dvag.dll
DriverProductName: ATI Radeon WindowsNT Display Driver
DriverProductVersion: 6.14.10.6483
Most of that doesn’t make sense to me, but it did help me isolate the problem down to my video driver. A quick Google search reveals that other folks have had problems with the ati2dvag driver and the BSOD. No one with a Thinkpad, though. I was optimistic about the fix I found here, but no joy. So I upgraded to the latest driver through IBM’s site - that’s 6.14.10.6512. Find the update insteller here.
So that seems to have done the trick, though I need to run it through the ringer. I’m not sure what caused the conflict, but if you’re like me MS just hit you with a rash of Windows Updates. I’m guessing one of them caused the problem. Who knows.
So, hopefully this is helpful for someone out there.
Update: Of course, nothing is as easy as it seems. The problems with my machine are reoccuring. However, I’ve recently noticed that the erratic behavior only occurs when I’m running on battery power, and then only when I am not stationary at my desk. Is something loose? The video adapter, perhaps? I can remember a slightly unusual ding that I gave the machine by accident several days back, but it was nothing drastic. It might have been just enough, though. I’m calling IBM (Lenovo) back. I’ll report!
Update (again): A more knowledgeable and well spoken IBM/Lenovo employee suggested that there could be a conflict with my embedded controller or BIOS. My embedded controller was already up to date, but my BIOS was 3 versions old. I upgraded from 3.13 to 3.16. It remains to be seen if that will solve the problem, but it’s worth a try. He is also sending me a new memory chip in case that is the culprit.
Final Update: After all this, the laptop finally just died, and I took it in. They replaced my motherboard (for the 2nd time in the year that I’ve had this laptop), and everything’s dandy now. I think, basically, when there is so much random and erratic behavior, there can be no other explanation.
Final Final Update (6.16.2006): After more than a year and many, many comments on this post, Soren seems to have come up with the first definitive cause of these problems - if we believe Lenovo knows what they’re talking about. Unfortunately, it sounds like if you have the defective part, there’s nothing much you can do to prevent the chance of a problem, and nothing to be done short of a new mainboard when it happens.
June 23rd, 2005 at 10:22 pm
[...] river, and the Blue Screen of Death (BSOD) Filed under: General — jantin @ 10:22 pm http://www.technotaste.com/blog/?p=103 Comments The URI to TrackBack this entry is: http://dream.sims.berkele [...]
November 1st, 2005 at 12:24 am
Anymore wisdom on this? Recently my T42 has started freezing at odd times too.
November 8th, 2005 at 7:20 am
Well, guys, i got those famout BSOD problems, and tried to figure out ways during past few months. Apparently it\’s ATI video driver problem. So, i uninstalled ATI driver problem. Thanks God - I haven\’t seen blue screen problem since then. Hope this could help if u look for compromise.
November 10th, 2005 at 1:17 am
I got my IBM Thinkpad T42 (2373) in April 2005 and now started getting BSOD. All started few weeks ago with a few BSOD and today I am getting multiple symptoms. Now my CPU is very slow running at 589 Mhz (Intel Centrino 1.70 Ghz). This is very bad and I am very worry. I uninstalled ATI driver with the softwares and keep getting more problems. Any advice? I noticed this happened when the laptop is under heavy stress (Running Visual Studio 2003) RAM is 512 MB. I also took pictures of the blue screens with digital camera.
Do you think I need to replace the laptop?
I have /important/sensitive information in my hard drive and I do not want to send my laptop for repair. Please help.
Thank you very much. Alex
Below is the last completed memory dump recorded this morning at 3:00 AM=>
C:\WINDOWS>dumpchk -d memory.dmp
Loading dump file memory.dmp
—– 32 bit Kernel Full Dump Analysis
DUMP_HEADER32:
MajorVersion 0000000f
MinorVersion 00000a28
DirectoryTableBase 18ad5000
PfnDataBase 81000000
PsLoadedModuleList 8055a420
PsActiveProcessHead 805604d8
MachineImageType 0000014c
NumberProcessors 00000001
BugCheckCode 0000008e
BugCheckParameter1 c0000005
BugCheckParameter2 804dc033
BugCheckParameter3 f67c1c80
BugCheckParameter4 00000000
PaeEnabled 00000000
KdDebuggerDataBlock 8054c060
Physical Memory Description:
Number of runs: 3
FileOffset Start Address Length
00001000 00001000 0009e000
0009f000 00100000 00eff000
00f9e000 01000000 1ef60000
Last Page: 1fefd000 1ff5f000
KiProcessorBlock at 80559320
1 KiProcessorBlock entries:
ffdff120
Windows XP Kernel Version 2600 (Service Pack 2) UP Free x86 compatible
Built by: 2600.xpsp.050301-1521
Kernel base = 0×804d7000 PsLoadedModuleList = 0×8055a420
Debug session time: Thu Nov 10 02:44:50 2005
System Uptime: 0 days 0:07:32
start end module name
804d7000 806eb180 nt Checksum: 0021743B Timestamp: Tue Mar 01 20:
04:06 2005 (42251106)
Unloaded modules:
f5ce8000 f5d12000 kmixer.sys Timestamp: Thu Nov 10 02:42:17 2005 (4372F9D9)
f5ea2000 f5ecc000 kmixer.sys Timestamp: Thu Nov 10 02:40:23 2005 (4372F967)
f8ac0000 f8ac1000 GATHER.KM Timestamp: Thu Nov 10 02:40:12 2005 (4372F95C)
f6ae2000 f6b0c000 kmixer.sys Timestamp: Thu Nov 10 02:38:36 2005 (4372F8FC)
f6b0c000 f6b2f000 aec.sys Timestamp: Thu Nov 10 02:38:29 2005 (4372F8F5)
f8aa7000 f8aa8000 drmkaud.sys Timestamp: Thu Nov 10 02:38:29 2005 (4372F8F5
)
f6ddc000 f6de9000 DMusic.sys Timestamp: Thu Nov 10 02:38:29 2005 (4372F8F5)
f6dec000 f6dfa000 swmidi.sys Timestamp: Thu Nov 10 02:38:29 2005 (4372F8F5)
f8a25000 f8a27000 splitter.sys Timestamp: Thu Nov 10 02:38:29 2005 (4372F8F
5)
f85e7000 f85f0000 processr.sys Timestamp: Thu Nov 10 02:37:34 2005 (4372F8B
E)
f85d7000 f85e2000 p3.sys Timestamp: Thu Nov 10 02:37:34 2005 (4372F8BE)
f882f000 f8834000 Cdaudio.SYS Timestamp: Thu Nov 10 02:37:33 2005 (4372F8BD
)
f8827000 f882c000 Flpydisk.SYS Timestamp: Thu Nov 10 02:37:33 2005 (4372F8B
D)
Finished dump check
November 10th, 2005 at 1:21 am
me again, actually the right model is IBM Thinkpad T42 (2379DXU) Thanks Alex
November 10th, 2005 at 10:34 am
Have you checked out the Watchdog file for your BSODs? Take a look in \WINDOWS\Log\Watchdog. Also, have you put any new memory in the machine? In my experience poorly seated memory modules can cause a huge variety of bizarre problems. However, it sounds like a hardware problem - potentially the system board.
If you bought a Depot-based warranty, you shouldn’t have a problem. The first time I sent my T42 back they sent me a box (postage paid) and I sent it back and had it back to me within a week. The second time I took it to a local repair shop certified by IBM. I picked it up 2 days later and paid nothing. Be careful though, the IBM Representative I talked to said that different repair shops have different deals with IBM, and some will make you pay for labor costs.
November 10th, 2005 at 5:44 pm
I can’t find this directory \WINDOWS\Log\Watchdog in my laptop. Any ideas why?
November 10th, 2005 at 5:47 pm
Sorry… that’s \Windows\LogFiles\Watchdog
November 10th, 2005 at 5:56 pm
Not luck with that one. Do I need to install Watchdog or something else in XP pro?
November 10th, 2005 at 5:59 pm
Nope, it should be an included feature. Check out this artcle for more info.
November 10th, 2005 at 6:34 pm
I found this article about Watchdog.
http://techrepublic.com.com/5208-11183-0.html?forumID=89&threadID=169760&messageID=1772967
I think my problem is not the ATI driver may be something else in the system. I am going to call IBM tomorrow and I will post my results here. Thank you
November 22nd, 2005 at 2:52 am
I had exactly the same problem of BSOD. The configuration of my Thinkpad is similar with a ATI Radeon 9600 graphics card. I tried everything possible with drivers, but the problem did not resolve. I finally tries removing the extra 1GB Transcend RAM module I had put earlier. It’s been more than 3 days now since I removed the RAM and my OS hasn’t crashed. I’m hoping I’ve zeroed-in on the problem. I’ll post an update if that is not the case.
Thanks.
November 23rd, 2005 at 11:07 am
Dennis,
Glad you resolved it by fooling with the RAM. I did the same thing, and thought I had fixed it, but then realized that it would crap out anytime I jostled the laptop even a little bit. So using it on a desk was fine, but anything else was out of the question.
There are some powerful RAM testing tools you could try, just to see if it’s the problem. I’d try Memtest86. Your problem sounds so similar to mine and others that I have a feeling you’ll find out it’s the system board. If you have a warranty, I’d recommend sending it in.
You know, there has been a lot more traffic on this post recently. It seems like more and more folks are running into problems like this with the T42. I wonder what’s going on!
November 24th, 2005 at 4:48 am
Actually, a few days basck, just when the problem had surfaced, the thinkpad would not even boot up! I turned it in and the IBM/Lenovo people returned it to me after three days saying they have replaced the planer/mother-board. But the OS crashing problem was prevalent even after it. So I played around with RAM. Today is the sixth consecutive day without a problem. I have got my RAM replaced with a Kingston Module, today. Let’s see what happens.. Will keep the forum posted. It might be that the malfunction with system-board led to corruption of RAM, but that is a far-fetched notion. I really do not know the exact cause.
Thanks.
November 24th, 2005 at 4:52 am
Yeah, I agree that BSOD on thinkpads have suddenly shooted up. What beats me the timing of these errors. Laptops bought around same time(Feb-May) have started behave erraticaly at around same time (oct-nov)!
November 28th, 2005 at 3:56 am
Same here.. got a few of these T42’s at work, and they’re suddenly bluescreening. Only when our Windows XP SP2 is installed though. Might be driver related.
November 28th, 2005 at 12:59 pm
Glenn - have you been using Lenovo’s new software update tools? I’ve run into huge driver incompatibility problmes related to upgrades of the Thinkvantage tools, drivers, etc. through the built in tool.
When I update drivers, I have to do it one at a time, and I’d say 30% of the time it kills something and I have to do a System Restore.
December 17th, 2005 at 4:34 am
I’ve had the same problem except mine is the T41 (2373IAA), purchased May 2004. The laptop can’t be jostled - the screen gets a bit of horizontal static and then it locks up. Being under a 3 year international warranty it was picked up, sent to the regional service centre 1000km away, had its mainboard and fan replaced and returned 3 days later. All was fine and dandy for about 6 hours before the freezing problem returned. A phone call to IBM tech and they advise a system restore. It still did not solve the problem. Now I’m waiting for them to pick up the laptop again. In the meantime I’ve pulled the ram module out from the bottom socket to see how it runs.
December 24th, 2005 at 3:20 pm
I have a ThinkPad T42 (2374-M59) and I have the same problem. I barely move the computer and it freezes. A few minutes of waiting for it to unfreeze gives me blue screen. I am annoyed by this because I love the features of the computer but it can’t be touched or it will freeze.
December 24th, 2005 at 3:46 pm
Cody,
That sounds exactly like what happened to me. Is it under warranty? If so, give them a call and send it in. When I called they ran me through this long list of tests and tricks, and none of them worked. Unfortunately, I don’t think you can tell them to skip it and just send it in - it’s the people who say that all the time who forgot to check that it was plugged in or something.
January 12th, 2006 at 11:52 am
Argh, this is happening to my T42, too - apparently there is a design flaw in the system board near the video card. Does anyone have any idea how to compel IBM to fix this? I paid a LOT extra for this thing because I thought it would be reliable, but now it’s a paperweight and is going to cost a fortune to get fixed. (it was five freakin’ weeks out of warranty)
I’ve tried posting about this issue over at forum.thinkpads.com, but the mods there are IBM/Lenovo cheerleaders (it wouldn’t suprise me if they have “consulting” agreements) and have refused to pin any of the threads about this issue. Also very frustrating!
January 12th, 2006 at 3:02 pm
My thinkpad T42p just crashed with the same error and is now not booting up. Lenovo is supposed to send someone out to look at it tomorrow. My machine was purchased in June 2004. I upgraded the RAM to 2 GB about a year ago with no problems until yesterday. I strongly suspect that the problem is software related and somehow related to a recent batch of Windows XP upgrades. This was the only thing that was upgraded on my computer prior to the appearance of the problems. That might explain why there is a spike in people having the problem now. I also suspect that it is related to the ATI 9600 board and driver. I’ll post anything else I find out here.
best,
Dan
January 16th, 2006 at 8:16 pm
i (too) have the same problem. horizontal static, then either freeze,BSOD on the ATI driver, or just black screen. sometimes it won’t reboot. moving the laptop around makes it happen more often and so i can’t see how this is driver related unless its trying to cope with some sort of hardware voltage tolerances. how can IBM sell these crap? mine is 2 months out of warranty! I WILL NEVER BUY IBM AGAIN! IBM should take responsibility for crappy manufacturing if it’s indeed a mainboard design issue. I tried pulling mine down and reseating everything, no joy. anyone managed to fix this without replacing the mainboard?
January 17th, 2006 at 9:33 am
I haven’t heard of anyone who has fixed this without a new motherboard, sad news though that is.
Several folks have mentioned that this is a mainboard design issue - does anyone have the backstory or preferably the link to back that up?
If there really is a design flaw that Lenovo won’t fix, then that makes me sad, because not withstanding the motherboard issues, I’ve loved my Thinkpad, and I think it’s one of the best designed laptops out there. Worth every penny…
February 3rd, 2006 at 8:11 am
I am so happy that I found this posting board. I purchased the T42 for work in June ‘05 and I have had the mother board replaced twice. Unofortunately the second time the hd went with it. Each time the computer died I got the BSOD more frequently and then the computer stopped booting when the battery was in, but I could get it to boot with just the AC adaptor. Finally, a couple weeks ago the computer froze and I wasn’t able to reboot. I have been hounding Lenovo’s Customer Relations people — she expidited this second repair — because at this point I don’t even want the computer any more. But I doubt they’ll take it back. She said that tech thought I may have disable some active protection that protects the hard drive. Has anyone heard this? I doubt it and after reading this board I am guessing there is a design flaw in the computer. I had her set up a phone call with her tech next week. I’ll post here if I get any good answers.
February 10th, 2006 at 3:39 pm
I was having the horizontal static and freezing issue, and today had the system board replaced. NOW I’m getting the ati2dvag errors (800×600 and pixelization OR blue screen) - and I can’t play videos. Tech who replaced my board says they’re not related… but your posts have me convinced they must be. Will updating the video driver fix it? I’m low tech and don’t know how to do that. Thanks in advance!
February 10th, 2006 at 3:44 pm
Gretchen,
If your problems are anything like the ones reported here, I hate to tell you but I don’t think updating the video driver will do a thing. That said, it couldn’t hurt to try it. It’s quite easy. Just go to the Thinkpad support site here, enter the details for your machine, and download the installer for the latest video drivers.
February 11th, 2006 at 9:13 am
I’ve been have the freezing problem too with my T42… but it only seems to happen when I’m using AC power… if I run it off battery it never freezes…. I’ve only occasionally gotten the BSOD… I called tech support and they couldn’t do anything… so I’m bringing it to a certified shop today. I’ve still got warranty coverage, so I guess it’s a good thing it happened while the stupid thing is still relatively new? I really hope they fix it… there’s no way I can do my thesis with it freezing all the time.
February 19th, 2006 at 8:12 pm
Well, although very tempting to vent my emotions on this matter, it would be best to just explain my experience in as staight a manner as possible.
In our NGO, we have a T42 that was purchased in around the same time as the others in this discussion. It started to have the same issues w/ the ati2dvag errors leading to crashes, BSOD’s, suspected corrupted OS and finalling culminating w/ BSOD’s everytime it was attepmted to re-install the OS from the recovery partition, this was Nov’05.
Called IBM/Lenovo as it was still under warranty and they said to bring it into a cert shop to have it looked over, in the meantime they would send Rescue/Recovery Disks to re-install the OS and rescue partition as by this point the call center figured the recovery partition was corrupt. The ‘first’ cert shop didn’t find any issues therefore got it back as is, ie not fixed. Attempted to re-install the OS from the disks sent from IBM/Lenovo; it BSOD’d on every attempt; tried about 6 times. Took it to another cert shop, they eventually replaced the mobo which was back ordered; got it back in early Jan’06. When I attempted to re-install from the recovery disks, it BSOD at some some point on every attempt; tried about 6 times.
Called IBM again, they mailed out a prepaid box to send them the T42. Got it back a week later; they replaced the RAM, the mobo again, and the HD. When attempting to re-install from the Resue Recovery Disks, it still BSOD’d; tried about 6 times.
Called IBM again, they sent out yet another set of Rescue Recovery disks, tried to re-install from the second set, still BSOD’d; tried about 6 times.
This brings us to mid Jan ‘06.
Called them yet again, this time the case got ‘escalated’ to a call manager. She sent out yet another prepaid box to have the T42 sent back. I insisted that they replace the T42 outright, they would not (in all fairness she did try to have it replaced); what they did do was replaced the CPU and installed a larger HD as ‘compensation’, it also came back with the OS installed to factory settings (I should mention that every other time it came back the OS was NOT installed; now I know that the warranty does not cover software issues per se, but it is thier modified/doctored OS image that was given for the OS re-install).
This brings us to mid Feb’06. So far the T42 has been functional for about a week and a half. It took them almost 3 months to resolve the issue of malfunctioning hardware and installing a stable OS (XP). During this entire process, nothing was offered to resolve, let alone mention, the original issue, ie the ati2dvag errors.
I leave you to draw your own conclusion(s) of the level of service we got from IBM/Lenovo.
Feedback greatly appreciated.
Cheers
March 5th, 2006 at 2:49 pm
Just to make you all feel warm and fuzzy. I have the same issues on a T43 with the ATI X300 video card…fun stuff. I’m going to try taking out the add on ram and seeing if it works better.
March 18th, 2006 at 5:31 pm
I’m getting a new motherboard…we’ll see if that works…unfortunately I’m out a few weeks for work so I won’t be able to do the board swap for a while. So for now I just run my PC with video acceleration disabled, so no games but at least I can watch some vids with media player without my PC locking up all the time.
March 19th, 2006 at 8:44 am
got the same prob as you guys. Taking out the additional ram or battery doesn’t work. Luckily was able to keep the laptop running some minutes so I could backup my data (thank god). I’m going to call the ibm support center tomorrow. I’ll keep you up to date.
March 21st, 2006 at 3:10 am
Bought my t42 in september, and now, 6 months later, i have the exact same problem. I have not installed any additional RAM. It happens no matter if i run on battery or AC adapter. I do not think it is a driver issue, as it also happens under linux. After the pc has crashed, the laptop sends out a low, high freq sound that wont disapere unless i unplug the battery. It just happened out of nowhere (only had openoffice running), and i could only have the pc on for 1-2 hours, and here, just before i send it in, only for 2-3 minnutes. When i adjusted the screen angle, the monitor turned off, wich made me think it was a problem also related to the hdd (the g-sensor). I sincerily hope that they have fixed the motherboard issue, so i wont have to go through the troubble of sending it in several times like people here have done. Anyone got any news of this
soeren-thorup@e-mail.dk
March 30th, 2006 at 9:24 am
T42 Same problem. After six months started crashing when moved. No BSOD so far, but wipes favorites files, work processing software, other software with sudden crashes. You can make it work by actually bending down the right hand side of the laptop, or pressing on the right side of the palm rest near the scratch pad. Shame IBM has been outsourced. Looks like I buy $500 laptops and throw them away when crashed. No more IBM for me.
March 30th, 2006 at 8:54 pm
I sent in my T42 to get a USB problem fixed (would only run at USB 1.1) and got it back two days ago. They replaced the Planar Card (motherboard) and figured everything would be fine. Got screwed tonight when the screen froze. I restarted only to get a black screen (monitor not even on). Just got off the phone with them and they need to replace the planar card again. So pissed. Probably stuck some refurbished crap in it and managed to do it poorly at that.
April 1st, 2006 at 10:26 am
Lots of problems lately. I wonder if a batch of shoddy motherboards are getting to the end of their wear-life. Since I had my motherboard replaced the 2nd time about 9 months ago I haven’t had any problems.
Some folks have attributed this sort of thing to the switch to Lenovo. But everything I’ve read and heard is that the enigneering, management, and support teams were transferred intact. So Lenovo (hypothetically) isn’t doing anything different. Go figure.
Anyway, next time someone has a problem and calls customer support, tell them to take a look at this post as a catalog of problems and frustrations.
April 13th, 2006 at 5:46 pm
To Alex at :
Your CPU running slowly is not a bug, but rather a feature used to save power.
When your laptop isn’t doing much, the CPU slows down. When you need it, it speeds up to a maximum of 1.7GHz (or whatever the maximum speed of your CPU is). I think I’ve seen mine down as low as 200MHz. So that’s nothing to be worried about.
Anyway, I’m just another user frustrated by the (occasional for me) BSODs caused by ati2dvag.dll. Sorry to hear there doesn’t seem to be much of a solution.
I wonder, do any Linux users run into errors like this? If you are one, are you using the ATI drivers or the opensource ones?
April 19th, 2006 at 2:24 am
i used the opensource drivers on linux, and it also crashed…
no bsod though
April 20th, 2006 at 8:05 am
Has anyone, besides me, tried running their T42 with the keyboard removed? I pulled it to check the memory, then left it, still connected, but removed from the case. The laptop seemed to run flawlessly in that state. If it continues to work, I’d say it points to a heat releated problem. The fan is running.
I just reinstalled the keyboard and will wait to see what happens.
April 20th, 2006 at 10:27 pm
Didnt try that, but the graphical errors wich occured before the bsod or crash looked exactly like when a gpu is overheating, so i would say it is likely.
April 23rd, 2006 at 10:02 am
I’ve got the same problem as everyone else, though mine just started a few days ago. Ben, did turing off the acceleration help?
April 26th, 2006 at 1:21 pm
T42, same problem. Motherboard has been replaced twice within a month. I’ve had similar monitor problems as other folks on this post and know several people with the same problems that I’ve been having. Eventually my case got escalated — only problem was that once it got escalated they forgot to send a repair box. I demanded a new computer. They refused. I refuse to buy IBM again.
May 6th, 2006 at 3:12 am
My T42p has developed this problem - mysterious crashes and video corruption, black screen when I move the laptop slightly, etc. It was purchased almost exactly 12 months ago.
This is definately not a software problem - I can turn the T42p off every time by pressing on the “IBM ThinkPad” logo to the bottom right of the keyboard. It’s as if my laptop developed a new “off” switch. I can even do this on the BIOS boot screen.
I would speculate this is a problem with the G-sensors failing, or the ATI video card becoming unseated. Probably the former.
May 27th, 2006 at 3:20 am
I have heard from Lenovo what the problem is!
It seems that a design-error can cause the GPU/heatsink to loosen from the motherboard. Holding your laptop in one hand should be enough to create enough tension for this problem to occure.
Lenovo says it has changed motherboard manufactor since the affected models were produced, and is runing out of stock of “original” spareparts. Because of that, they expect the problems to become fewer, as the old motherborads gets replaced.
I just had my motherboard replaced. I hope i got one of the new motherboards. Fingers crossed.
May 29th, 2006 at 2:54 am
I’m having exactly the same problems described here with an IBM T42p (2373-7XU) that I bought just over a year ago.
I’m happy to finally know what’s going on - I’ll call them and get them to replace the motherboard.
Thanks!
June 12th, 2006 at 4:27 pm
I’ve got a T42 (2378-FVU) that I purchased in July 04. I’ve had nearly flawless performance from this machine for almost two years now which is more than I can say for the numerous other brands I’ve had start to fail within 3 months of purchase.
I get the exact same issue in Windows or Linux or even the BIOS setup menu. It’s not just a driver–the graphics start to artifact, sometimes the horizontal lines, then the display shuts off. It’s aggravated by movement–even a strong keypress.
It would make sense to me that it is a heat issue like Soren says. I hold my laptop in one hand often enough, and I noticed right when this started happening that the bottom of the chassis was hotter than I’ve ever felt it before. It’s funny too, because this is by far the coolest running notebook I’ve owned. Glad to hear they “think” they’ve fixed the problem though. I’ll be sending mine in shortly.
June 16th, 2006 at 6:04 am
My T42 is out of warranty already. I replaced the keyboard because I couldn’t get it to boot up and now it boots up, but I’m having the issues you all are describing.. (no BSOD, but it randomly goes black, and I have to do a hard reboot to get it back up, and even then, not perfectly.
Anyone know how I can fix the “design flaw” myself? I’m pretty handy if I needed to resolder something, etc. Didn’t really want to drop $300+ on a new mainboard, especially if I’m not guaranteed to get the “newer” design.
June 28th, 2006 at 7:03 am
My T42 recently suffered the same fate as many of you have described (randomly crashes to black screen and refuses to boot up, particularly when moved).
Has anyone had luck in getting Lenovo to fix their laptop even if it’s out of warranty (since it’s a known defect)? If not, is there any way to strengthen the bond between the GPU/heatsink and mainboard?
June 28th, 2006 at 8:37 am
I have the same problem with my T42. The machine works fine on a desk, but if I move it or use it on my lap then pretty soon the screen gets all static and then freezes - the only thing left to do is a hard reboot.
I bought it in July of 2004 - so I’m near the end of my warranty. But I’m having the system board replaced tomorrow. I hope that it helps the problem. I’ll post back and let you know.
Does anyone know, since my warranty expires in a little over a week. If this doesn’t fix the problem, will IBM/Lenovo continue to help me since I opened the support ticket prior to the end of my warranty? I hope so.
BTW - I asked the support guy if he’d heard of this problem and he said that he had. So there must be more of us out there. He didn’t really even ask me any questions, just said that they’re sending someone out to replace the board.
June 28th, 2006 at 8:41 am
You know, this post gets a ton of traffic on Technotaste, mostly I think because there doesn’t seem to be much info. about this problem out there. Anyone had much luck Googling other sites with info. on this?
Next person who calls tech. support, maybe give them this URL? By now it’s a nice running tally of people’s symptoms related to this issue.
June 29th, 2006 at 8:39 am
OK - I just had the system board replaced. So far things are running very smoothly. I can move the laptop and pick it up in one hand without it freaking out. The service technician said that he’d seen the problem many times and that at it seems to happen generally around the 2-year mark.
For those of you without a service contract, I watched him do the repair. I think that it would be completely possible to do it yourself if you have a little bit of computer know-how and a screwdriver. The tricky parts are just knowing where all the screws and wires go. I would guess that a novice would need the better part of an afternoon to do it. The service guy took about 35 minutes.
One thing to look into is that after he replaced the hardware and put it all back together he ran a boot program that changed some id numbers (not sure what he was doing but you can probably find some information on how to do it). There are service manual pdf’s floating around for the T42 and other machines on IBM’s support site and other places. Probably a good place to look for help.
strangely, the only thing that seems to not work right now is my intel software that was running my wireless card. Somehow during the installtion of the new hardware, all of my settings and profiles got deleted and now it won’t connect to my wireless router - so I have to use the windows software which works fine. very strange since we didn’t make any chages to the wireless card or the hard drive. The only thing that I can think of is the lan port changed along with its mac address - i don’t know why that would affect my wireless software.
Hope this was helpfull to anyone with the same problem.
June 29th, 2006 at 4:06 pm
Hey Scott,
If you don’t mind me asking… how much did you get charged for the system board replacement? I was on the phone with IBM support today and they were going to charge $425 to replace the board.
Thanks.
July 6th, 2006 at 10:12 am
@Wes - Scott wasnt charged anything since he still had warranty. Read his post.
@Scott, Dont hold your laptop in one hand
(look post #44). I dont know how the rules are in the US, but here in Denmark, if you have a 2 year varanty, it will renew itself for parts that has been replaced (in this case the motherboard should be covered by another 2-year warranty).
July 8th, 2006 at 6:15 pm
I just started having the same problem with my T42 bought in Nov. 2004 (1 yr 8 months). Horizontal static on the screen, frozen screen, BSOD with the ati driver. It’s definitely a result of holding the laptop in one hand to the right of the touchpad (right on top of the hard drive). Bending or pressing on that spot locks-up the computer. Will call to see if it’s still under warranty.
July 25th, 2006 at 1:34 am
The problem actually has a simple explanation: excess heat. I downloaded SpeedFan, http://www.almico.com/speedfan.php a temperature/ fan speed monitoring program and was shocked by the 55 deg C temps I was running at. I opened up the machine and cleaned out all dust which helped a great deal with the HD temp but the other temp monitor (I assume is on the processor) can still get too hot. It’s supposed to enter standby mode when the computer gets too hot but the standby mode I’ve been getting is the BSOD.
To increase airflow, I’ve been working with the laptop propped up on 4 pencils and now have only experienced 1 BSOD in the past week.
So, if you’re having trouble with BSOD:
1. download speedfan http://www.almico.com/speedfan.php to see if you’re overheating
2. clean out the inside of your T42 with a few blasts of canned air.
3. maintain airflow around the unit by propping it up on pencils or purchasing a laptop cooling unit.
Also note that if your Thinkpad overheats, it can take an hour or more to cool off, especially since when off the fan is not running.
I hope this helps.
August 6th, 2006 at 8:59 am
Same problem over here with a t42p (1yr and 10 months old, so 2 yrs is very accurate).
The problem indeed happens under both Linux and windows. In particular exercising the GPU causes the lockup.
I can confirm that removing the keyboard helps cooling. Perhaps just loosen the screws will help.
August 9th, 2006 at 9:24 pm
I leave my story with a similar problem:
I bought a T42p from a former IBM employee here in Mexico.
The laptop is new (only 2 day old) but I have this problem.
I’ve installed Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit 2 & NFS Porsche Unleashed. Both games makes the laptop to FREEZE completely, sometimes I get a Window saying the ati2dvag stopped working.
Since the laptop lacks serial number I have not support from Lenovo.
So, in a few words: If the Thinkpad is failling for any reason that means that some hardware is faulty?? (I cannot believe this is happening, because I’ve always used Thinkpad and had no problems whatsoever with them)
August 12th, 2006 at 8:39 am
I’m getting similar problem with R51 (using ATI 9000 card). Suddenly (after 22 months) I experiece random lockups and “The driver ati2dvag for the display device \Device\Video0 got stuck in an infinite loop” errors. Since R51 and T42 shares some parts I guess it could be the same issue.
August 14th, 2006 at 9:55 am
I had the exact same issue with a T42-2373-RP1. I could actually cause the exact BSOD every time by moving my laptop around quickly.
Check to see if you are running the Active Protection program by IBM/Lenovo for the hard drive. It is a program that monitors hard drive shocks and movements and shuts down the hard drive temporarily if the shock or movement is harsh.
I removed this program and the problem went away.
This program would lock the hard drive and never release it. So the machine would freeze for about 30 seconds to a minute then Blue Screen.
September 17th, 2006 at 8:50 am
Just another thought for those not specifically having a problem with their video card or mother board: My T42p-2373-H16 would freeze (no BSOD, just freeze) with the slightest movement. When I connected the laptop to an external monitor, everything was fine, indicating an LCD connection/hardware problem.
Hope that’s helpful for some subset of tortured IBM Thinkpad owners.
September 28th, 2006 at 6:04 am
My otherwise reliable and problem-free Thinkpad T30 (4.1 yrs old!) seems to be afflicted with this first-static-then-jittery-then-BSOD screen attributed by XP to the ati2dvag file, but like others here I noticed that it was worsened when I moved the laptop or pressed in the bottom right hand corner. I downloaded that temperature program from almico mentioned above and my temp is 50+ so I think that confirms my faulty motherboard/heatsink connection. My question: Where do I go from here? do I have to buy a new mother board? if so how do I know it wont have this defect? I’m not afraid to solder something (especially since I know it’s already broken) but if that’s not feasible maybe someone can recommend where to get a replacement motherboard. Also, is it stupid to replace a motherboard on a laptop that is 4 years old? Thanks!
September 30th, 2006 at 9:28 am
I have the exact problems described above on the T42 Thinkpad. Has anyone been able to repair this problem without replacing the motherboard? Is it really some kind of loose connection with the heatsink or some solder joint that could be resoldered?
September 30th, 2006 at 5:04 pm
I simply did what Steve mentioned in post No.55
Cleaned out the inside of my T42 with a few blasts of canned air and purchased a laptop cooling unit.
I also, uninstalled the Active Protection program by IBM/Lenovo as Rob Alter mentioned in post No.59
So far, it’s all good
October 31st, 2006 at 1:04 pm
hi guys i have recently aquired an old t41
i installed a vanilla copy of winxp
and started installing devices
as soon as i installed the ati drivers the machine started locking up after a few minutes
it doesnt seem to lock up when on battery power (although ive not pushed the card harder than installing drivers and a small ammount of browsing)
i assume the card goes into a low power mode to conserve energy when the power is not plugged in
a temporary fix is to just uninstall the ati drivers and use vga drivers (useful if you want to backup your stuff before you potentially sending it away for ‘repair’)this t41 was steady as a rock using the standard vga drivers
i think this t41 is still under a full 3 yr on site service agreement and i will go the lazy route and have the board replaced if cleaning the inards out does not work
cya
November 11th, 2006 at 2:36 am
Like somebody before said it is in most cases the video chip(be it the ATI 7500/9000/9200/9600/FireGL) starting to come off the board. I had it happen to my personal T42. I sent it to a company in IL called MicroMedics(www.micromedics1.com) and they apparantly have found a way to fix them without needing to replace the board(verified by the serial number and MAC address shown in the BIOS). It didn’t cost me anything as I had it taken care of under a 3rd party service agreement I bought with the laptop(didn’t buy it straight from IBM). Its been 6 months or so since I’ve had it fixed and no video problems so far. If you don’t have a warranty I don’t know how much it would cost you though, as like I said it didn’t pay for it out of pocket :). Only took about a week to get a box sent to me, it sent in and fixed, and shipped back to me so it minimized the downtime. I did a little research and apparantly this problem is inherient not just to the T30/T4x/R5x series of IBM’s but to any laptop that uses BGA video chips, which unfortunatly practically every one on the market as they allow manufactures to make smaller and lighter laptops. It definitly makes me glad I bought the service plan since I saw the FRU for the board in my laptop going for over $750 yikes!!!! - Jim Thompson
November 29th, 2006 at 2:08 pm
ding ding. I have the same thing on my T42 (it was about 25 months old when it happend and I’m outside my warranty).
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=33952
I’m going to contact the company listed above to see what the cost is to fix it.
December 10th, 2006 at 9:35 am
Hello friends,
I am yet another owner of a t42 (2373-x30) and experience the following problems:
screen freezes, leaving me to shut it off by pressing the on/off button for a few seconds.
when repowering, three things can happen:
1) blank, black screen and two short and one long beeps. this means either system board, lcd assembly or ram related problems (according to lenovo web)
2) blank, black screen. nothing else happens.
3) it reboots.
from very frustrating phonecalls ive learned that the pc doesn’t even look for the harddrive until _after_ the thinkpad logo disappears when booting. thus, the problem seems NOT to be related to software issues.
leaving the pc turned off for a while seems to prevent boot problems 1) and 2) above. this suggests cooling problems as proposed by soren and some others.
furthermore, i have succes bending the lower, right corner of the computer up a bit, as described in another post above. this makes the pc boot just fine. also, interestingly, this helps booting even though im not allowing the units to cool down.
i have the richly described problems with shaking the computer leading to freeze.
ive tried to take it completely apart, refit connections and dust it off with pressurized butan/propan.
as many others, i believe the problem is related to the engineering of the system board. (naturally) the next step would be to take a close look at the seating of the GPU.
has onyone tried this?
about thermal dissipation of the GPU, im also thinking about scraping off the black “glue” it sits in, and instead use some thermal paste as used for connecting CPUs and cooling device.
has anyone tried that?
of course i have no warranty on the laptop, hence all these attemps…
last, im very glad to have found this thread! a shame if this makes ibm’s trustwothiness go down a bot, but still i must say that when the lap runs normally, it kicks ass!
merry christmas to you all.
December 18th, 2006 at 5:22 pm
I have a T42P 2373 KUU. My screen flashes sometimes, like a refresh, no BSOD or blackouts. I think it is heat related. Your thoughts? I was thinking of taking it apart and see if anything is loose.
December 18th, 2006 at 10:41 pm
I have a thinkpad t40 and it just started happening last week. The laptop would sometimes start up and sometimes not. When it does not start up, it is just a blank screen. No bios, nothing. When it does start up, it is random when it would freeze, bsod, or garble image on the screen. It sounds like the same problem that everyone else is having. I am thinking about going on ebay and buying another mobo, but if it’s a design flaw, then it’ll probably happen with the used mobo on ebay, too. What to do ? What to do?
December 18th, 2006 at 10:45 pm
Well, it sounds like they’ve fixed the defect for new parts. So if you get it repaired under warranty you should be fine, but if you buy a motherboard on eBay there’s no telling whether you’d get one of the old ones or not…
December 19th, 2006 at 4:11 am
I ran mobmeter, CPU is running 41C - 46C. Too bad this tool doesnt monitor heat for the video chipset.
December 21st, 2006 at 5:21 am
Nguyen; welcome to a sad club.
Mark: look at http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=18399 to find a program to monitor GPU temperature.
I’ve monitored the temperature on CPU/GPU and they rarely go above 50 degrees C.
At the mo im trying to find a cheap mobo and replace it all. Afterall, it doesnt seem to be heat related anyway. And for future use of the machine, ill make sure not to move it unless necessary.
December 23rd, 2006 at 8:34 pm
Same problem, seems I’m the only T40 user here though. Also close to 2 years of use… wondering what my options are since I don’t think it’s under warranty… I bought it slightly used.
Such a shame! I need it to work, damn it.
December 25th, 2006 at 2:13 am
Romy: You might be in luck, see the link
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=33952&start=30&sid=40dd7d24de8ac5e6932c01ed09db21ab
- a guy called erasmus has had succes in fixing his T40.
December 28th, 2006 at 9:48 pm
I’ve tried he fix in the above link and it seem to work pretty well.
The fix was to stack some post-it notes on the video chip and then screw the keyboard back down to sandwich the post its to the keyboard and video chip.
No issues yet in 2 days with this method….
January 4th, 2007 at 6:02 pm
I have the following problems with my T42. It is about 2 years, 4 months old. The screen frooze suddenly last night, wont startup again. Also had horizontal static lines. Called the tech support and ran the BIOS diagnostics. Tech support told me that problem is in the video driver and guided me to remove and install it again. Everything seemed to work allright for one day. When I moved the laptop again this morning, the problem re-appeared. Called IBM and I am sending in the laptop this week.
January 6th, 2007 at 3:28 pm
This is a common problem. ~2 years out, the radeon mobility chip gets unseated from the heatsink. Same symptoms across the board. Just put a bunch of small post-it notes (around 7mm of them) on top of the gpu (it says ATI) and screw your keyboard back in. You should notice the pressure on your keyboard, but too much will keep some keys from working. I’ve had no problems since I’ve done this and have read many reports of others with similar success.
January 17th, 2007 at 11:20 am
I had the same problems with a T40 (random crashes, screen going blank etc), so I opened it up and tried the post-it note fix over the ATI chip just under the touchpad buttons.
However, it was still unstable, so I went and looked at it again, this time however I put the paper (1 A4 sheet folded up a number of times, then cut in half) over the chip directly up from the chip marked ATI.
This time it worked, and has been stable since, however it may be just that the paper is pushing down more on the underlying board itself, who knows. Anyway if you a have a T40 and the other fix isn’t working, then give it a try.
January 18th, 2007 at 6:23 pm
The problem is that the video controller chips separate from the motherboard, in the newer laptops. Newer (past few years) video controller chips are attached to the motherboards using what is called “surface mount” technology. As processor transistor densities increase, it becomes almost impossible to attach them to motherboards using pins. This is because the pins would have to be so close together, that the soldering process would end up cross-soldering pins (soldering one pin to another.) Surface mount technology uses what is called a “Ball Grid Array” (BGA), which means they now use an array of tiny solder balls to attach the chip to the motherboard. The weakness of this method, is that the solder will crack over time, either from differences in thermal expansion in the motherboard and chip, and/or more commonly from the motherboard flexing slightly. Whenever you pick up the laptop, place it on an uneven surface, adjust the screen angle, etc., the case flexes slightly. The motherboard is attached to the bottom of the case, so it also flexes. This is why you can temporarily fix the problem by pressing on the case. Chips attached with pins (like the CPU) are largely immune to this problem, because the pins can flex along with the motherboard, without cracking like solder does.
Some people have fixed this problem by shimming the area between the graphics chips and the underside of the keyboard (not possible where the video chip has a fan on it. Also, some models, like the R40, have a poorly designed heat sink for the video controller, that only comes in contact with one side of the controller; this exacerbates the motherboard flexing problem, because of the uneven pressure applied to the chip. A url that discusses this problem is http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?p=237501&sid=07fe537a23bb9753c3709261b44c3880
This is indeed an example of very poor design by IBM engineers. Both the bad video controller heat sink design and not reinforcing the motherboard (by attaching it to a vented aluminum under plate, which is in turn attached to the case,) are major design weaknesses. We can see from some of the above postings, that repeatedly replacing the motherboard isn’t a long term fix. I believe IBM isn’t the only company who made this mistake. I think you’ll find that almost all laptop manufacturers have committed this error. So now, we have a situation where laptop computers have become a disposable item. Adding an under plate to the motherboard should fix the problem; it will add a pound or so to the weight, but that is a small price to pay for reliability.
Good luck to us all,
Adrien Lamothe
January 18th, 2007 at 6:55 pm
I forgot to mention, that there is a repair procedure for re-attaching separated BGA chips. It is called “BGA rework,” and it requires special equipment. The only problem with BGA rework, is that it doesn’t work all the time. I’ve been told that BGA rework is only successful about 50% of the time, and that when it fails the attachment is likely to be worse than before. Companies performing BGA rework sometimes will charge the full repair cost only if successful, and will charge a much lower fee if the process fails. A couple of companies performing BGA rework on laptops computers are:
http://micromedics1.com/default.aspx
http://www.johnsoncomputer.us/motherboard.html
Remember, if you try this, you’re “rolling the dice.”
Cheers,
Adrien Lamothe
January 31st, 2007 at 12:57 pm
We’re having a problem with one of our T42s here at work (2378-RAU). The user will be working away and then all of a sudden the laptop will just shut down completely and then won’t boot up again. In order to boot it up I have to remove the battery and run it using the adaptor. Once it is booted up I can put the battery in place and it will work again, in fact it works so good that I give it back to the user as fixed only to have him come back again with the same problem the next day. This problem is totally baffling me. The way it shuts down looks like the battery is drained, yet when I check on the battery it is still showing a lot of juice. I thought it may be the memory because we’ve had problems with store bought memory in T42s before. (Note - Kingston seems to be the only memory that will work in a T series laptop, other than buying it directly from Lenovo). I took the extra ram out and just ran it with the on board ram but the problem remained.
Does anyone know what might be causing this to happen? I hope it’s not the MB but I have a feeling that it might be the case. One T41 we have has already given up the ghost due to a dead MB.
I’m not too sold on the T40s. They don’t seem nearly as robust as the T30s or even the T20s, which we have a lot of and are still running quite well.
Sorry for the rambling
February 2nd, 2007 at 11:16 am
I have the same problem. I think it’s from the GPU coming off the board as well. mine unfortunately is out of warranty. i think we should setup a group and maybe do a class action for defective design for those who are out of warranty. even for those who are still in warranty the same issue could come up late on when it’s not longer in warranty.
March 8th, 2007 at 3:22 am
Just to add, I’ve had a T40 make it’s way to the support desk laptop graveyard with a similar problem (sometimes hangs on boot/inexplicably hangs during use/stays up for 10mins at most if it’s hot (been in use), longer if it’s started from cold)…
Poking the ATI chip with the keyboard out replicates the problem, changing out the ram/harddrive doesn’t make a difference. IBM quoted ridiculous figure to replace the planar board (out of warranty) so am trying the wedge of paper shoved in workaround with some success! Woot!
March 8th, 2007 at 4:06 am
Oh… In response to ‘mark’ who said his laptop flashes sometimes without the crash/hanging issue.
I wonder if he’s talking about the flicker when power management switches between profiles, i.e. when you switch from AC to battery power I get a flicker while switching to a different profile (to a less bright screen, etc).
I think this is normal, I’ve had it happen on most IBM thinkpads as far as I remember…
March 16th, 2007 at 8:21 am
Count me in as another user (T42P) suffering from this problem. I had an IBM support tech out to my office yesterday who replaced the UXGA LCD, hoping that would fix it. Of course, the problem is still here and was immediately noticeable after installing the new LCD. They’ve ordered a replacement system board and will hopefully be onsite installing it on Monday. It looks like I’ll be getting a fresh keyboard while we’re at it, as the left ALT key popped off after servicing.
Onsite support agreement is the only way to go with notebooks. I couldn’t bear the thought of sending my notebook away for who knows how long to get it serviced. Too bad my support agreement ends in May - at least I’ll have a fresh system board, fresh LCD, and fresh keyboard before then. What’s left to break?
March 19th, 2007 at 2:10 pm
Problem solved. New board looks identical to the old board, so I can’t say that the problem won’t come back down the road….
At this point the notebook is almost entirely new. Only the plastics and touchpad are original. Hopefully I’ll have two more years before this issue comes up again.
March 20th, 2007 at 9:20 am
I am having the same problems. I currently am having it serviced, but I’ve called IBM tech support for further information about this problem. I don’t have my model # so they couldn’t check specifically, but they said that it might have an extended warranty on certain parts (its been about 2.5 months since I bought it). I would call 18004267378. Maybe if enough people report the problem, they might do something about it.
March 20th, 2007 at 3:37 pm
I have the same problem with a t42. I popped open the keyboard by taking out three screws on the bottom of the laptop, and inserted a spring over the GPU on the mainboard with two pieces of paper on the top and bottom to prevent electrical conductivity, and screwed the keyboard back on. Presto, worked for me. I can jostle the laptop all I want with no problems.
March 21st, 2007 at 3:47 am
When I called IBM they said it wasn’t a design error but that this happens when the laptops are mishandled…??
March 28th, 2007 at 2:05 pm
So, I just wanted to thank those that contributed to this thread (and Google for getting me here as quick as possible). It saved me hours of frivilous troubleshooting with Lenovo. Also, I’d recommend the on-site support to anyone who orders a new Lenovo. New motherboard on the way, no questions asked.
Thanks!
Dave
March 29th, 2007 at 8:27 pm
I have a t60p 2007-8eu
and I get BSOD. I get the NMI: memory parity or memory error and the system locks up. here is a pic from my machine of the error. http://www.geocities.com/atesfaye anyone having the same problem or solve it? This is aproblem with the video card which is an ATI fir GL V5200.
April 4th, 2007 at 7:03 am
Yet another user w/ issue of T42-2373-3XU blackscreening/video lockup &/or BSOD upon slight movement. Gonna try the “home remedy” of placing paper atop the GPU. Will post back if it works. And, thanks to the group for the comments.
April 5th, 2007 at 8:32 am
Thought I had it working a couple of hours after inserting the paper, but the end-user took it, and brought it back today saying it is still doing it. Perhaps not ENOUGH paper? Tired of fiddling w/ it. Taking it to get mobo replaced.
May 10th, 2007 at 2:27 pm
[...] Ja sÃ¥ er der blevet indkøbt ny computer, eller i hvert fald dele til den. Min elskede t40 laptop synger pÃ¥ sine sidste vers, da den desværre er blevet offer for den ikke helt ukendte “GPU’en er gÃ¥et løs fori du har bÃ¥ret din laptop i en hÃ¥nd”-fejl. Indtil videre betyder det at den engang imellem gÃ¥r kold, især hvis jeg f.eks. spiller, sÃ¥ gpu’en bliver benyttet kraftigt. Nitten! Den har ellers tjent mig trofast og godt siden marts 2004 :-/ [...]
May 17th, 2007 at 1:14 pm
I was also facing the same problem for over last 7-8 months.I have a Thinkpad T42 which is like 2 years over.It will freeze or the screen will go blank if I touch the notebook.
I made it a desktop & used external keyboard & mouse for a long time.Also showed it to some guys at the Hardware centre & they said that its a mother board issue & will cost 250$ minimum to fix.I didn’t want to spend that much amount & continued using it like a desktop.then I came to know about the Post it way of fixing the issue.it worked I put the post its over the GPU pressed by the keyboard & atleast for last 1 day it has been working great.lets see how long it can handle
May 24th, 2007 at 2:34 pm
Glad I found this page. Was just about to buy a T42, on the basis of my flawless X20.
What a disgrace.
May 25th, 2007 at 6:41 pm
Nav, I support the class action initiative.
I have a defective Thinkpad R50p which has the same problem. I sent it to a company which does “BGA Rework”, and they “reflowed” it, but it didn’t work. The reflow process uses the existing balls as joint. There exists another procedure called “BGA Reballing” where the contact balls are replaced by newer balls or by a paste applied with an stencil, and then the chip is re sodered with the new balls/paste. Sadly, this company doesn’t have the stencil for my ATI FireGL T2-128. So if anybody knews about a company providing those stencils, that would work. The company is MegaTech
The FireGL chips, are four chips in a single piece, one chip is on each corner of what you see, apparently the problem is in the lower right corner. (see: http://picasaweb.google.com/emaringolo/OverhaulinThinkpadR50p/photo#5033419903034480786 ). So applying pressure at that corner may help to boot the computer. And that is where the extra pressure, fix, or any other patch should focus.
This how it started to look before I even know what a BGA chip was: http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=378878481&size=o
May 25th, 2007 at 6:51 pm
I’ve found this to be very a good example of what may be happening to your BGA CHIP. .
The company seems to have a long expertise in the area.
http://www.etech-web.com/bga_reballing.htm
May 31st, 2007 at 4:13 pm
I also am a t42 user from mid 2005. I pick mine up single handed from the left side of my unit and get the very lovely BSOD. So very nice. I see now of what i suspected all along to simply be a flexing of the MB. Nice to know that i was correct. My current issue if any here would havw advice for me is upon boot-up i get FAN ERROR and shut down. Just curious of any others with this problem and if it required a MOBO replacement or simply (hopefully) the fan replaced of its own. I was A Corp. computer salesman back in the late 80’s. Just be thankfull that no body here is having the wonderfull IBM quality issues of that period along with the tech manuals that the IBM engineer’s admitted that they just flat lied. Those were fun times
May 31st, 2007 at 4:45 pm
Mike - I have had the ‘FAN ERROR’ problem twice in the last six month. It’s just what it sounds like. I had the fan replaced at a local IBM authorized service joint and everything was peachy again.
June 6th, 2007 at 12:02 am
My 18 month T42 has also been getting progressively worse recently with more frequent lock ups. I thought the shock protection device was being too sensitive. Pressing on the top of the case helps for a short time…but any minor movement will lock it up.
This Thinkpad design is not quite as rugged as I was led to believe.
This condition reminds me of my old Atari ST computer with the motherboard located under the keyboard. In the sunset of its useful like I would have “twist” the whole thing to seat the chips before it would boot up…it sounded like knuckles cracking.
June 15th, 2007 at 8:38 am
This fix worked great!!! Thank you soooo much.
June 18th, 2007 at 11:33 am
During the past week I’ve had the same problems with my T40. It’s such a shame, as I really love this laptop.
The machine will fail to boot up, or it will suddenly freeze if the case is handled ever so slightly; perhaps even from typing. Pressing the upper left corner of the area to the right of the touchpad has been enough to prevent freezing but lift the finger, and there goes your session. (Press again, and it stays frozen.)
I mainly just see a black screen. The BSOD isn’t seen often but when it does happen, it leads to a brief error message about the ATI2DVAg file. Initially, I was naive enough to think the problem could be fixed by installing an updated version of this file… but we know this isn’t a software problem.
It seems the laptop does not overheat. I installed the program recommended above and my machine stays in the ’30s. Anyway, I have problems even when booting up in the morning, so…
The post-it fix was an improvement but the problem would still happen, just not as often. Adding folded paper to the “next chip along” (is that the BGA chip?) has also been effective, although I suspect the problem remains the ATI chip but that firming the general area around it may work. Is it safe to place paper in the machine though?
I bought my laptop used and have no warranty. Buying a new motherboard seems to be no guarantee of a permanent solution. Taking the machine into my local repair shop will probably be an expensive excercise ending with the recommendation that I get a new motherboard.
So I hope people will keep sharing their experience with the forum - both in terms of own fixes, good companies offering solutions, as well as how IBM owes up to the problem.
Mikael
June 18th, 2007 at 4:05 pm
I solved this on my IBM R32 last weekend and wrote a detailed post. Here’s a link:
http://rdist.root.org/2007/06/18/ibm-thinkpad-overheating-chipset-fix/
June 19th, 2007 at 11:15 am
Update: Thanks to Stephen for his post above (78.). I placed a piece of folded paper on the chip next to the one saying ATI, and the laptop has been stable since.
Naturally, I’ll also try not to handle the laptop with just one hand from now on…
PS: Great link, Nate. It’s very useful for non-computer sassy people like myself to see close-ups of the parts we’ve been talking about in this thread!
August 9th, 2007 at 4:56 am
I’ve had a T60p with the FireGL 5200V 512 card installed. Although the pad worked as it should for about 6 months, I’ve had the infinite blue screen loop occurring every 10 minutes or so (plugged in or not) and being stable on a table top doesn’t seem to matter. I’m getting the ati2vdag dump. Lenovo seemed to feel a hardware issue was at hand so it’s off to service this week. I have noticed that when I hit the web site, the T60p doesn’t seem to have an option for the 5200V 512M anymore? What’s the deal there? Has someone seen an issue, removed this option from the build options and just failed to issue a bulletin over it? On the other hand, this issue started in MAY, my warranty has gone south as of July 20th. Today being the 9th of Aug. Lenovo is going to proceed with work under warranty being as I first reported it back in May. The notebook ‘disappeared’ for 3 months at work. They must have had an issue getting past the biometrics and returned it. So has anyone else had these issues with the 5200V 512M card/build? This is a 2613-ETU
August 22nd, 2007 at 4:09 pm
Wish I’d found this a while back. Would have answered a lot of questions…
I’ve got a T42 (2373-AUU) from mid-summer 2004, so early the tech didn’t know they’d started putting wi-fi on the mobo. (I know, I just like saying it…) had to have them help me upgrade various firmware to get on-board wi-fi to work at all…
I’ll say that I can’t indict Thinkpad durability, as this is my fifth since 1994, and I’ve also had 2 Toshibas and a Dell. But the design on this model seems flawed, perhaps by pushing the features v. size v. weight equation too far.
Mine has returned to Atlanta twice for mobo replacement, all under warranty, for exactly the probs described here: random freeze-up, black/blank screen, error ref to ATI/Radeon driver, touchiness when either the screen angle is adjusted, or when the area to the right of the scratchpad (totally useless piece of h/w, IMHO. Fell in love w/ the trackpoint, & I’m NEVER going back to trackballs, flickpads, etc…)
I now always pick it up with two hands, rarely carry it with the lid open, and cary it by the battery edge, book-like, when closed and off.
So far, so good.
Love my black monolith w/ the red dot.
August 22nd, 2007 at 5:24 pm
My t42 would not boot up or take a charge for no reason. Two days later it booted up and worked for 3 minutes and then shut itself down and would not power on again. I pushed power button 10 times and then held power button for 20 seconds…..the battery light flashed and that was it. Tech support tells me it is bad motherboard
August 23rd, 2007 at 5:13 am
Does anyone know if the blank screen/motherboard problem is found on T30’s as well? I bought a used T30 (2366-FBU) from IBM last Feb and its now doing the exact same thing. Sometimes I get 4 sets of 4 beeps, always get blank screen - even the little lite on the screen won’t come on. Argh…
Pete
August 29th, 2007 at 1:34 am
Pete..You can check the beep codes here:
http://www.bioscentral.com/beepcodes/ibmbeep.htm
My R40 has the GPU problem and when I got beeps, it was one long, two short. The problem has - apparently - been resolved with the “wedge.” I needed a higher stack to get above a “cage” off to the left of the GPU, but my Thinkpad is no longer a paperweight.
September 13th, 2007 at 8:17 pm
Consumer Electronics Reviews…
I couldn’t understand some parts of this article, but it sounds interesting…